View source for Suicide ganking (CSM)

[[Category:CSM_Submission]]
[[Category:CSM First Candidacy]]
[[Category:Resolved Issues]]
== Stats ==
Raised by: [[Ankhesentapemkah]]<br/>
Submission Date: 31-05-2008<br/>
Issue ID: 0026

== Summary ==

There are concerns with players that fit fully insured ships with high-damage modules, to attack and destroy other players in high-security space, either for looted cargo or modules or as grief tactic.<br/><br/>
There are numerous problems with the system:
* There is no defense against such tactics, besides attempting to suicidge-gank the criminals first or by pre-summoning [[CONCORD|CONCORD]] ships, which is a questionable tactic.
* The attacker is not at any risk, as he can patiently scan each ship to see if it is a profitable target
* There are not enough consequences for the attacker, standing loss can easily be raised back up, financial impact is offset by [[Insurance|insurance]]
* There is no way to get revenge against the attacker, as he can be in an NPC corp to avoid wardecs and usually has gangmates to assist him
* Fundemental issues with the amount of financial damage between attacking and attacked parties, attacker can inflict hundreds of time more damage than it costs him


== Potential Solutions ==

* Tradable [[Kill_Rights|Kill Rights]]
** Pros
*** Puts bounty hunting back on the chart
*** Allows for characters without a large corp backing them as well as non-combat characters to get their revenge more easily
*** Some insecurity and unpredictability to high-sec crime
*** Allows players to provide their own security
** Cons
*** Suicide gankers and other criminals might just be alts that are not hindered by losing their ship, booty gets laundered to other characters
*** Might deter, but does not prevent the crime
<br/>
* Increased [[Security_Status|Security Status]] Penalty for High-Sec Crime
** Pros
*** More meaningful consequence to crime
*** Criminals have to pick their targets more thoroughly, cannot kill as much without having to grind their standing back up
*** Punishment and inconvenience might convince some to pick up a different career
*** Longer removal of criminals from high-sec
** Cons
*** Character might be recycled
*** Accidents might be punished too harshly
*** Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behaviour
<br/>
* Exponential [[Security_Status|Security Status]] Penalty for High-Sec Crime
** Pros
*** Accidents will no longer be harshly punished
*** Longer removal of criminal elements from high-sec
** Cons
*** Character might be recycled
*** Use of alts while ‘cooling down’
*** Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior
<br/>
* Known, Repeated offenders can (either temporarily or not) no longer raise their [[Security_Status|security status]] through ratting, etc
** Pros
*** Hard consequences to repeated offenders
*** Longer removal of criminal elements from high-sec
** Cons
*** Character might be recycled
*** Use of alts while ‘cooling down’
*** Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior
<br/>
* No [[Insurance|insurance]] when involved in crime
** Pros
*** Crime costs more for criminals thus…
**** likely to result in a drop in random grief suicide ganking
**** Criminal actually punished and suffering meaningful consequences
**** haulders can carry some more cargo before being economically profitable to [[Suicide_gank|suicide gank]]
**** threshold for attacking mission runners is lowered
*** Realistic, why should [[Insurance|insurance]] pay for criminals that directly damage the [[Insurance|insurance]] company, which has to pay for both criminal and victim
*** Suicide ganking is still on the table for destroying and plundering ‘dumb haulers ships’
** Cons
*** Accidents get punished harder
*** Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior
<br/>
* Criminal pays for victim's [[Insurance|insurance]]
** Pros
*** Happens in real life
*** More consequences for crime
*** Could stop some [[Griefing|griefing]], as the victim suffers less and the criminal pays for it too
*** Direct consequence, not avoidable by alts
** Cons
*** [[Insurance|Insurance]] may not cover a huge part of the loss
*** Mechanic artificially discourages certain player behavior
<br/>
* No [[Insurance|insurance]] for people with negative standing
** Pros
*** Direct punishment for immoral behavior, like Ultima Online’s statloss
** Cons
*** Directly upsets balance between pirates and vigilantes
*** Harms activity in low-sec and 0.0
*** Mechanic artificially discourages lots of player behavior
<br/>
* Known, repeated offenders eventually become outlaws and attackable by all, even in high-sec
** Pros
*** Players responsible for enacting justice
*** Realistic, why would [[CONCORD|CONCORD]] protect criminals?
*** Harsh consequences for criminal behavour
** Cons
*** One-sided
*** Alts, char [[Recycling|recycling]], etc
<br/>
* Players can side with [[CONCORD|CONCORD]] and attack any player with negative standing / Criminal activity in past X days
** Pros
*** Players responsible for enacting justice
*** Pre-emptively remove known criminals camping high-sec gates, no longer a massive initiative advantage
*** Consequence for criminal behavior
** Cons
*** Alt [[Recycling|recycling]]
*** If there is a direct [[ISK|ISK]] reward, it’s an [[ISK|ISK]] faucet
*** Might be exploitable by using alts
<br/>
* Characters in NPC corps can no longer commit criminal acts
** Pros
*** Players can wardec criminals and attack pre-emptively
*** Less anonymity for criminals
*** Slightly discourages alt [[Recycling|recycling]]
** Cons
*** Might limit [[New_Player_Experience|new player experience]]
*** Corp hopping
<br/>
* No criminal acts allowed for characters under 15 days old
** Pros
*** Stops trial account and alt abuse
** Cons
*** Limits [[New_Player_Experience|New Player Experience]]
<br/>
* Prevent scanners from operating in high-sec
** Pros
*** Criminals can no longer calculate if their target is profitable, more risk
** Cons
*** ?


== Relevant Forum Threads ==
* http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=777704

== Votes ==
 
* [[Ankhesentapemkah]] - Yes
* [[Bane Glorious]] - Yes
* [[Darius Johnson]] - Yes
* [[Dierdra Vaal]] - Yes
* [[Hardin]] - Yes
* [[Inanna Zuni]] - Yes
* [[Jade Constantine]] - Yes
* [[LaVista Vista]] - Yes
* [[Serenity Steele]] - Yes

== Resolution ==
* [[CSM-CCP_Meeting_1-1#0026_Suicide_Ganking]]
* http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=577