Talk:Invention

This section is wrong.. The BASE research time is blueprint class dependent, (ie, Modules, such as Overdrive Injector is 2 hours 30 Mins, Ships, ie Stabber Cruiser is 2 DAYS, 2 Hours, Battleships are 3 odd days.)

Also, unless its about to be changed, inventing in a Empire station in 0.9 space has a 1.0 Multiplier. The POS numbers are also wrong, and are Lab Dependant; Advanced Mobile Lab : 2 Invention slots (0.5 job time bonus) Mobile Lab: 5 Invention slots (0.5 job time bonus)

I have not encountered the "2.5 multiplier" that is officially listed.

-Mestoth

Yeah those multipliers were something ccp published before invention was actually released. Slots costs based on sec-rating was never implemented but lingered on in some old official documents.

tech II bpo existing?

I have heard a few different things from websites and ingame.

Is there a way to find Tech II BPOs in EVE without having to buy one from a player?

I have heard that some complexes have tech II BPOs as an award and I have heard that R&D gives out tech II BPOs (Though if I understand, this was discontinued)

~arcangelbjr

The T2 BPO lottery has been discontinued, as have all other means of acquiring Tech II BPOs, due to the extremely destabilizing effect they have had on the economy. A Tech II BPO can be researched to a much higher level than any invented Tech II BPC can attain, cutting the costs of manufacturing Tech II items to a fraction of what any other player could build them for. You can obtain the items needed to make copies of a Tech II BPO from complexes, and if you know a player who has a Tech II BPO you could probably trade those items for a Tech II BPC with greatly improved stats. That is really about the closest you can get to having a Tech II BPO, unless you luck out and some player who is quitting Eve puts their BPO up for sale (though most will prefer to destroy the BPO instead, usually by destroying a rookie ship with their BPOs in it until they're all gone, and posting the killmails just for lulz). --Tatterdemalian 21:08, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

Using Decryptors On Ships Clarification

"Tech II ship BPCs created through Invention will always have the minimum of one run remaining, before the decryptor's max run modifier (if any) is added. Tech II module and ammunition BPCs created through Invention will have between one and ten runs remaining, depending on how many runs were remaining on the Tech I BPC used to create them in relation to the maximum runs possible; this is then modified by the decryptor bonus, allowing up to 19 runs on an invented BPC."

For ships the max run modifier application is dependent upon the T1 BPCs runlevel. (This has been confirmed by a GM in a petition I opened to clarify the situation.) It is not a matter of logically applying the decryptor modifier after the minimum level of 1 is established. For full run modifier bonus the T1 BPC for ships must have MAX run level.

Please clarify for others by editing the above quote.

Edited For Typo.

Probability formula clarification needed

There seems to be a contradiction between this formula

Base x (1 + E) x (1 + F x I) x D.

which is linear in metalevel and skill,

and the paragraph that describes the logarthmic scaling of probability with total skill (and meta 4).

A naive application of the formula gives 100% increase to the probability of invention with 10 total skill points and a meta 4 item, rather than 66%.

Support this. Also the article doesn't explain the value of the 'Base'. --Wormerling 13:38, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

My understanding of that section

Using no item is treated the same way as using meta 0 item. I.e., in case of 10 total skill points and no item, 1+F*I = 1 + 0.2*1 = 1.2; in case of 10 total skill points and meta 4 item, 1+F*I = 1 + 0.2*5 = 2. So, the bonus from meta 4 item compared to no item with the same total skill points - not to the case of no item and no skill points - is 2/1.2 - 1 = 2/3 = 66%

I would suggest replacing the sentence "Metalevel 0 item does not improve invention probability" with something like "Using no item is equivalent to using metalevel 0 item". The former sentence, while true (using meta 0 item gives no bonus compared to using no item), may be misleading - one can decide that in the case of meta 0 item and in the case of no item the multiplier 1+F*I is replaced by 1.

Also, the dependance of bonus on total skill level (TSL) is not logarthmic but fractional linear (if, again, one considers the bonus w.r.t. the same TSL but no item, not to the (impossible) case of no skills and no item) - it is of the form

(1 + 0.1*TSL/(5 - metalevel))/(1 + 0.02*TSL) -1 = 0.02*metalevel*TSL/(5 - metalevel)/(1 + 0.02*TSL) --Litho Shooran 19:58, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Where does the probability formula come from?

Where does this formula come from? Is it from an official CCP source? Or is it empirical? If empirical, where is the data on which it is based?

I've come across a countering assertion that in fact the invention probability does depend on the ME and PE -- that you get a small but measurable increase in probability if you've researched to perfect ME and PE (the ME and PE for perfect depending on the base blueprint stats). When confronted with the statement on this page that ME and PE does not matter, I was told that that was because those who believe it does not matter have not pushed it far enough and obtained enough statistics to see the effect. I've asked for the data there too, but for right now I'm just looking at two different assertions.... I'd love to know where this formula came from, and how it was derived.

-Mira Brennon

Mathematics fail

Skill level in the appropriate scientific fields (eg. mechanical engineering)

   * 0.02 multiplier per skill level up to 0.2 (F) 

LuckyLuigi : As skill level only go to 5 this should be either ...up to 0.1 (F) or

• 0.04 multiplier...

I think the formula arises from the fact that there are always two skills required for invention ... thus 10 possible skill levels. The range is then from 0.04 (since the minimum requirement is 1 point in each skill) to a maximum of 0.2 = 0.02 * (5 +5).

Decryptor bonus changed

On March 3rd, as the link below shows, ISD Keitiro changed the decryptor bonus run numbers. I presume this was because of Dominion changes. I'd appreciate it is this were clarified, at least in the history when the page is changed.

Edit summaries are important! Please don't forget them!

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/index.php?title=Invention&diff=79392&oldid=79339

--Susurrous 19:06, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I see no valid reason for these changes. The numbers do not match the values in the current published database dump, and are not backed by in-game values. As such, I changed them back to the current database values until the changes can be explained and/or verified.

--Ruziel 16:23, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Further Researching Tech II BPCs

Once a TII BPC is invented, there are tabs for Copying, Material Efficiency Research and Time Productivity Research with appropriate skills and materials listed.

Can BPCs produced from invention be researched further?

If so, can that be explained further.

No, you can't research a blueprint copy, only an original could be researched, copies are used for production and invention only.
--ISD Keitiro 13:28, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Max runs formula correction

The formula for Max Runs of the invented BPC is incorrect

MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus), 1), T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)

should be:

MIN(MAX(ROUND_DOWN( (Input_T1_BPC_Runs / T1_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy) * (T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy / 10)), 1) + Decryptor_Runs_Bonus, T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy)

Addition 25/04/2015: Both the above formulae (and the formula on the page) are wrong as the outer most function is MIN(). For T2 ships, T2_Max_Runs_Per_Blueprint_Copy is always 1. As this is the second parameter of the MIN() function, this means that the above formula will always return 1, regardless of what you put in the first parameter to the MIN() function.