CSM Meeting Minutes 3.010 raw log

[ 2009.10.25 16:06:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > ************************* Meeting 10 start
[ 2009.10.25 16:06:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > OZ excused himself - he is sick apparently
[ 2009.10.25 16:07:03 ] Erik Finnegan > ::argh:: my sound has a neverending jump gate loop....
[ 2009.10.25 16:07:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > Zastrow is not present atm.. hopefully he'll show up in a bit
[ 2009.10.25 16:07:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > we have a short agenda today
[ 2009.10.25 16:07:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > 1: Spanish localization (maz)
[ 2009.10.25 16:07:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Spanish_localization
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:01 ] mazzilliu > ok
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:23 ] mazzilliu > well i was reading that topic and i switched my client to spanish, and i found that there is absolutely no spanish translation at all
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:31 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:37 ] Erik Finnegan > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:08:43 ] mazzilliu > and i think this is a little bit off because it is one of the top 3 languages
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:04 ] mazzilliu > so the csm issue just asks for a proper spanish translation
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:06 ] mazzilliu > meissa go
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:13 ] Meissa Anunthiel > The same applies to french, and while spanish may be the 3rd language internationally, the contingent of people from south america playing eve is practically non-existent. If they haven't done it for french, I don't see them doing it for spanish
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:25 ] Meissa Anunthiel > it takes a shitload of resources to localize everything in a game...
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:27 ] Meissa Anunthiel > [/end]
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:36 ] mazzilliu > maybe if they had a client in their language ccp might see growth in south maerica
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:43 ] Issler Dainze > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:47 ] mazzilliu > diedra go
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree with meissa, but I can also back this up with numbers. Hold on to your seats, I have a lot to say here :) ...
[ 2009.10.25 16:09:58 ] mazzilliu > ok
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:00 ] Dierdra Vaal > source: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172090&page=3#85
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > First, it would be great if we could help (through tutorials) everyone, regardless of their language. I'm a big fan of more new players in the game - Eve needs this to be healthy. However, translating the tutorials is not a trivial task (with ever-chang
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:13 ] Dierdra Vaal > (with ever-changing tutorials), and a big question is if you want to have tutorials in language A, while everything else in the game is in language B?
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:26 ] mazzilliu > yes ive addressed that
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > Assuming we're ok with having specific localized tutorials and spending developer time on it, should spanish be one of those languages? Sure it is the fourth (after mandarin, english and hindi) most spoken language in the world - but does this apply to
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:31 ] Zastrow J > hi
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > ...but does this apply to eve as well?
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > This devblog of the most recent CSM elections shows that this is not the case. According to the devblog (see the list of voters by country, then % of subscribers), the 10 most spoken languages in Eve are:
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > 1: English (US + UK + english part of Canada (78%) + Australia + New Zealand) - 58.3%2: German (Germany + Austria) - 9.39%3: Russian (Russia) - 5.44%
[ 2009.10.25 16:10:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > 4: French (France + french part of belgium (50%) + french part of Canada (22%)) - 3.9%5: Dutch (Netherlands + dutch part of belgium (50%)) - 2.6%6: Danish (Denmark) - 2.1%7: Swedish (Sweden) - 2%
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > 8: Norwegian (Norway) - 1.35%9: Finnish (Finland) - 1.1%10: Polish (Poland) - 0.8%
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > In fact, spanish (Spain + parts of latin and middle america) is so under represented that None of the top 21 countries speaks spanish. This also shows why only english, german and russian are the officially supported languages.
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > So while spanish is the fourth most spoken language in the world, it is only spoken by an exceedingly small part of the Eve population. It would be more likely and reasonable to include a french or dutch or even polish tutorial than it would...
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > ...would be include a spanish one.
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > there is absolutely no justification of a spanish translation over that of more than a dozen other languages.
[ 2009.10.25 16:11:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:01 ] mazzilliu > the CSM issue is about translating the whole client, not just the tutorials.  i also think having a localized tutorial with no localized client is silly
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:05 ] mazzilliu > hmm thats a lot of stuff
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:10 ] mazzilliu > ok lets see
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:11 ] Dierdra Vaal > well even so
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:29 ] Zastrow J > everyone should just learn to speak american
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:30 ] Meissa Anunthiel > (it makes it even worse, full localization means even more work)
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > it is not justifyable to translate the client into a language only spoken by an extremely small percentage of the players
[ 2009.10.25 16:12:41 ] mazzilliu > do any of you guys know why EVE is so popular in these countries specifically?
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:00 ] Meissa Anunthiel > yeah, they have broadband
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:02 ] Dierdra Vaal > because they're rich western nations with more internet access
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:08 ] Erik Finnegan > Russian players came before the Russian client for sure
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:14 ] mazzilliu > it would take me a bit of time to figure out if the localizations already exist for german, russian, french, dutch etc
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > only german, russian and english
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:26 ] mazzilliu > do you guys know which languages have already been covered?
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > which are the 3 largest languages in eve
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:37 ] Meissa Anunthiel > they do for german, russian and mandarin
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > oh yeah mandarin too
[ 2009.10.25 16:13:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > for serenity
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:15 ] Meissa Anunthiel > there's yet to be a localization in the queen's english though
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:22 ] mazzilliu > lol
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:34 ] mazzilliu > thats easy just put some U's in the wrong places
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:38 ] mazzilliu > viola, queen's english
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:45 ] Meissa Anunthiel > it's "voilà" in french btw
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:53 ] mazzilliu > im talking american here
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:53 ] Erik Finnegan > And it is Queen's English
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:56 ] mazzilliu > :)
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > lets get back on topic guys :)
[ 2009.10.25 16:14:58 ] mazzilliu > ok anyways
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:00 ] Meissa Anunthiel > viola means "raped", makes me cringe everytime one of you USians say that
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:07 ] mazzilliu > sweet
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:15 ] mazzilliu > ill keep that in mind
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:18 ] mazzilliu > anyways
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:43 ] mazzilliu > is the low number of spanish people playing because of the geo-political situation of spanish speaking peoples, or complete lack of a spanish client?
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:44 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:15:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:16:01 ] mazzilliu > it seems like it might be a little hicken and egg problem
[ 2009.10.25 16:16:13 ] Erik Finnegan > I would suggest a purely business-driven decision here on the part of CCP. If they deem the Spanish player base big enough - or a potential in the Latin world for EVE expansion - then they can do it. And they will. No need for us to intervene.
[ 2009.10.25 16:16:19 ] mazzilliu > ok im not digging thru the above chat im just going to start with meissa's !.   if you want a ! just do it again
[ 2009.10.25 16:16:39 ] Issler Dainze > I think this is a business decsion that is up to ccp so I don't support the suggestion (end)
[ 2009.10.25 16:16:55 ] Meissa Anunthiel > It boils down to resource allocation, it's a huge undertaking, and should the effort be made, which I'm not sure makes sense from a business perspective, spanish will/shoul not be the top priority. [/end]
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:00 ] mazzilliu > yeah erik, thats what i am thinking.  only CCP can really know with their numbers if this is a worthwhile thing to do.  they will of course turn down the issue if its not worth it
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:23 ] mazzilliu > meissa go
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:32 ] Meissa Anunthiel > read above your last line :p
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:46 ] mazzilliu > oh
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:50 ] mazzilliu > ok deidra go
[ 2009.10.25 16:17:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > Saying you get more spanish players through a spanish client _may_ be true, but the same goes for any other languages. And the clear situation is that only Spain is a rich country. all other spanish speaking countries are poor countries with low....
[ 2009.10.25 16:18:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > ..broadband coverage. making the total gainable number of subscribers much lower than other rich european countries
[ 2009.10.25 16:18:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > such as french, dutch, etc
[ 2009.10.25 16:18:39 ] Erik Finnegan > Well, well, Brazil got the Olympics now.
[ 2009.10.25 16:18:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > the amount of work involved in translating a client is completely disproportional compared to the tiny amount of players who speak spanish.
[ 2009.10.25 16:18:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:20 ] Erik Finnegan > But they speak Portuguese....I should know that..... ts, ts
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:20 ] mazzilliu > yeah, i dont really have numbers on hand to determine the real potential market for spanish speakers
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:27 ] mazzilliu > i think its something for ccp to decide on their end
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:36 ] Erik Finnegan > Yes, mazz, not our business.
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think they did
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > and they choose german, english, russian and mandarin
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2009.10.25 16:19:50 ] mazzilliu > er, it is our business
[ 2009.10.25 16:20:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > I think we can vote?
[ 2009.10.25 16:20:23 ] mazzilliu > there are players complaining about lack of spanish client.  wether its possible to do or not is not our decision, but its within our roles to bring the issue to CCP and see what they think
[ 2009.10.25 16:20:34 ] Dierdra Vaal > a vocal minortiy
[ 2009.10.25 16:20:48 ] mazzilliu > perhaps.  i think the issue needs further study either way
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:03 ] mazzilliu > lets vote if nobody has any more !
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > I vote no
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:13 ] mazzilliu > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:14 ] Erik Finnegan > /emote votes no
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:14 ] Issler Dainze > /emote votes no
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:30 ] Meissa Anunthiel > /emote votes no
[ 2009.10.25 16:21:30 ] Avalloc > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:22:22 ] mazzilliu > vvuk zastrow wake upppp
[ 2009.10.25 16:22:26 ] Zastrow J > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:22:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > vuk?
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:06 ] Meissa Anunthiel > can I change my vote to yes?
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:16 ] mazzilliu > yeah
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:26 ] Dierdra Vaal > just remember if you do spanish, why not hindii? CCP could reach 1 billion more people with hindii!
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:39 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I know DV, it's just to bring the subject of localization to the table
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:49 ] Dierdra Vaal > let people speak english, sheesh
[ 2009.10.25 16:23:55 ] Meissa Anunthiel > broadband penetration in india sucks though
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > as it does in south american
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:07 ] Erik Finnegan > Can you play EVE with ISDN ?
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:10 ] Meissa Anunthiel > agreed
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:10 ] mazzilliu > if they can, they should have hindi too
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:10 ] Issler Dainze > this really is a business decision for CCP to make on their own, the cost is huge and ongoing
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > and spain, to be honest. spain is afwul in terms of internets
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:21 ] mazzilliu > i would have included hindi if i had thought of it at the time
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > did you change your vote to yes meissa?
[ 2009.10.25 16:24:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I did
[ 2009.10.25 16:25:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok, vuk, last chance
[ 2009.10.25 16:25:31 ] Dierdra Vaal > motion passed 4/3.
[ 2009.10.25 16:25:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > tbh its ridiculous since spanish people are less then 0.8% of the population, but whatever
[ 2009.10.25 16:25:51 ] Issler Dainze > sad
[ 2009.10.25 16:25:56 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok next
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > 2: Accessability focus group (avalloc)
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Accessibility_Focus_Group
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:07 ] Issler Dainze > good news is ccp will do whatever tey would have done anyways
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > yup, which is not support it
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > anyway, avalloc has the floor
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:31 ] Avalloc > For those with limited function or accessibility to the real-world eve has become a tool for social interaction.Despite the horrible interface, time-sinks and deliberate UI gaps, the game has become quite popular with many in this position.
[ 2009.10.25 16:26:45 ] Avalloc > Unfortunately there have been times when elements of the game have been changed which give no consideration for the impact it'll have on these individuals.
[ 2009.10.25 16:27:10 ] Avalloc > I propose like the economist CCP has hired they also have a accessibility group which reviews increments to the engine against their own test-cases. This body could also work on ensuring various human interface devices (HID) work with the engine and pos
[ 2009.10.25 16:27:22 ] Avalloc > possibly even working with manufacturers to improve some of these devices with experiences gained from eve users.
[ 2009.10.25 16:27:46 ] Avalloc > (gee, even less disabled players than spanish speaking)
[ 2009.10.25 16:27:52 ] Avalloc > questions?
[ 2009.10.25 16:28:11 ] mazzilliu > im going semi afk, if i dont get back in time write my vote down as a yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:28:14 ] Avalloc > This is something that affects me personally.
[ 2009.10.25 16:28:25 ] Issler Dainze > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:28:35 ] Avalloc > Issler?
[ 2009.10.25 16:28:57 ] Issler Dainze > I would support asking ccp to consider investigating accessability on a regular basis (end)

...client crash...

[ 2009.10.25 16:34:19 ] Avalloc > please do
[ 2009.10.25 16:34:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > add examples of bad accessible eve ui to your topic
[ 2009.10.25 16:34:23 ] Avalloc > will do
[ 2009.10.25 16:34:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > this gives a better view for CCP what would need to changed/improved
[ 2009.10.25 16:34:41 ] Dierdra Vaal > and gives them a better idea what a focus group would be working on
[ 2009.10.25 16:34:59 ] Dierdra Vaal > 3: trading navy cap boosters (maz)
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:03 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Trading_navy_cap_boosters
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:05 ] mazzilliu > ok
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:16 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:16 ] mazzilliu > there is already a precedent for this, trading faction ammo on the market
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:29 ] mazzilliu > so i think faction cap boosters should have their own category.  they are awesome in pvp
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:31 ] mazzilliu > meissa go
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:40 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I don't get the point of requiring contracts for faction items. So I'm definately for this, and more
[ 2009.10.25 16:35:45 ] Meissa Anunthiel > [/end]
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:06 ] Dierdra Vaal > I agree, all charges (ammo, boosters, etc) should be market traded. end
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:23 ] mazzilliu > anyone else?
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:36 ] mazzilliu > vote?
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:37 ] mazzilliu > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:40 ] Meissa Anunthiel > /emote votes yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:36:57 ] Erik Finnegan > /emote votes yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:05 ] Zastrow J > yea
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:24 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:25 ] Avalloc > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:28 ] Issler Dainze > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > motion passed 8/0
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > 4: Selling multiple items at once (DV)
[ 2009.10.25 16:37:51 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Sell_multiple_items_at_once
[ 2009.10.25 16:38:21 ] Dierdra Vaal > basically, selling lots of items you got through mission running is a pain. You can mass reprocess, but you cannot mass sell to existing buy orders.
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:07 ] Dierdra Vaal > this suggests implementing the ability to mass sell items, shown in a window with a list of the items and the price for each item. (similar to reprocess window)
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > the downside that this issue may have is increased server load
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:27 ] Dierdra Vaal > if it turns out it would be too heavy, CCP would ofcourse deny it.
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:43 ] Dierdra Vaal > but their programmers have shown to be clever and resourceful, so it may be possible.
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > questions?
[ 2009.10.25 16:39:50 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:40:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > meissa
[ 2009.10.25 16:40:07 ] Erik Finnegan > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:40:40 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Of any market improvement, this is possibly the worst/most stupid one that could get assigned developer time to. If they're going to attribute any dev time to any market-related thing, I don't want to give them the idea that this is a wanted thing lest
[ 2009.10.25 16:40:50 ] Meissa Anunthiel > they actually decide to assign someone to it. [/end]
[ 2009.10.25 16:40:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > why do you not like it?
[ 2009.10.25 16:41:31 ] Meissa Anunthiel > because it's meaningless in scope. I don't oppose it so much as opposing the idea of allocating dev time to it
[ 2009.10.25 16:41:50 ] Dierdra Vaal > it would greatly reduce the hassle of selling items after mission running
[ 2009.10.25 16:41:57 ] Dierdra Vaal > manually checking all items for their price
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:10 ] Dierdra Vaal > and since a great deal of people run missions, this would benefit a lot of players
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:14 ] mazzilliu > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > and it would also promote selling modules on the market to existing buy orders, which helps the people that do trading
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:32 ] Dierdra Vaal > Erik?
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:43 ] Erik Finnegan > I see the practicality of it for the individual pilot. A lot of them. No doubt. But would that not tie into the idea of "store-fronts"...in the sense that you have a store, which standing offers, which you replenish ? So yes, refill standing offers,
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:51 ] Erik Finnegan > but in a larger concept rather. [FIN]
[ 2009.10.25 16:42:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > (promote? you mean they're holding back on sales because they can't do it in batches? ludicrous)
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > no more people will now simply reprocess loot to avoid the market order hassle
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:32 ] Erik Finnegan > ! (addition)
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > erik?
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:52 ] Erik Finnegan > The multitude of item types for that use case will make "standing offers" not very practical.
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:55 ] Erik Finnegan > [FIN]
[ 2009.10.25 16:43:59 ] Issler Dainze > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:17 ] Dierdra Vaal > and erik, this does not tie into storefronts as that is still only a concept so we cant really anticipate for it
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > issler
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > wait no
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > maz was first
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > maz?
[ 2009.10.25 16:44:58 ] mazzilliu > oh
[ 2009.10.25 16:45:33 ] mazzilliu > i think its a good idea, but i think ccp will veto it or roll it into the next market overhaul, because they have said they are reluctant to mess with old code, and the market runs on some of the oldest code
[ 2009.10.25 16:45:42 ] mazzilliu > end
[ 2009.10.25 16:46:13 ] Dierdra Vaal > that would be understandable, but even if that happens they could keep it in their minds for any future market overhauls
[ 2009.10.25 16:46:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > issler
[ 2009.10.25 16:46:36 ] Issler Dainze > the problem I see is there are so many times that there is just one buy order for some stupidly low price one could spend as much time picking what to "batch" as it takes to just do things one at a time (end)
[ 2009.10.25 16:46:55 ] Dierdra Vaal > actually no
[ 2009.10.25 16:47:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > if you read my issue, it suggests to display all items and the price you;d get for them
[ 2009.10.25 16:47:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > if one is too low (which is possible) you can simply rightclick and remove it from the batch
[ 2009.10.25 16:47:30 ] Meissa Anunthiel > which doesn't tell you anything about the refine value of the items
[ 2009.10.25 16:47:48 ] Dierdra Vaal > no it wont
[ 2009.10.25 16:47:53 ] Dierdra Vaal > and it doesnt need to
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > most pilots have a rule of 'anything over X isk gets sold' and reprocess all cheaper items
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > not stricktly speaking the most economic method
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:24 ] Dierdra Vaal > but its fast
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:32 ] Erik Finnegan > But very viable for that.
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:33 ] Dierdra Vaal > or at least, as fast as it can be atm
[ 2009.10.25 16:48:43 ] Erik Finnegan > I know. We have a lot of young mission runners
[ 2009.10.25 16:49:19 ] Dierdra Vaal > because checking market order on price, then checking reprocessing minerals AND checking the value those would get on the market is so much effort nobody bothers
[ 2009.10.25 16:49:39 ] Dierdra Vaal > this suggestion just streamlines the existing process
[ 2009.10.25 16:49:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes mission runners are lazy, but it is this lazyness that makes the eve economy work :)
[ 2009.10.25 16:50:04 ] Dierdra Vaal > any other !s?
[ 2009.10.25 16:50:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok I guess we can vote
[ 2009.10.25 16:50:46 ] Meissa Anunthiel > /emote votes no
[ 2009.10.25 16:50:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > I vote yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:50:55 ] Erik Finnegan > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:51:01 ] mazzilliu > voting yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:51:25 ] Avalloc > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:51:40 ] Issler Dainze > /emote votes yes as letting them think about this suggestion in the context of the bigger revamp is a good thing
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:08 ] Dierdra Vaal > vuk/zastrow?
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:19 ] Zastrow J > yea
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:27 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > motion passed 7/1
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:37 ] Dierdra Vaal > 5: Aggression timer length (maz)
[ 2009.10.25 16:52:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Aggression_timer_length
[ 2009.10.25 16:53:10 ] mazzilliu > ok this issue is about ships with massive HP camping stations and then docking when things get hairy
[ 2009.10.25 16:53:24 ] mazzilliu > the aggro timer is very short, when speaking in terms relative to killing capital ships
[ 2009.10.25 16:53:25 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:53:46 ] mazzilliu > so the issue is to raise the aggro timer for capital ships only
[ 2009.10.25 16:53:48 ] mazzilliu > dierdra go
[ 2009.10.25 16:54:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > this issue, or a very similar one was raised in CSM1. The old issue felt that different class ships should get different docking timers. low timers for frigs to high timers for capitals. CCP at the time was unwilling to change it but I think it was a...
[ 2009.10.25 16:54:22 ] Dierdra Vaal > ..good idea.
[ 2009.10.25 16:54:30 ] Dierdra Vaal > this issue only concerns capitals though, right maz?
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:24 ] mazzilliu > yeah, and more specifically capitlas that can fight without comitting to seige
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:28 ] mazzilliu > like carriers, and pre-nerf moroses
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:36 ] Dierdra Vaal > I will support it as nobody should be near invincible within docking range.
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:38 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:42 ] mazzilliu > anyone else?
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:52 ] Meissa Anunthiel > !
[ 2009.10.25 16:55:59 ] mazzilliu > meisa go
[ 2009.10.25 16:56:23 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I'm trying to figure out if there's any other circumstance under which the aggro timer plays a role for cap ships, I can't think of any from the top of my head, can any of you?
[ 2009.10.25 16:56:27 ] Meissa Anunthiel > [/end]
[ 2009.10.25 16:57:22 ] mazzilliu > the aggro timer affects stations and gates and jumping out
[ 2009.10.25 16:57:26 ] mazzilliu > and of course they cant jump thru gates
[ 2009.10.25 16:57:55 ] mazzilliu > so it would also affect how long caps have to wait before jumping our of, say, a cap battle
[ 2009.10.25 16:58:19 ] Meissa Anunthiel > hmmm
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:15 ] Meissa Anunthiel > that's a positive too, you start a fight you stay and fight.
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:21 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Ok, that covers my concerns
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:26 ] mazzilliu > yeah
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:28 ] mazzilliu > anyone else?
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:37 ] mazzilliu > ok lets vote
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:39 ] mazzilliu > voting yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:42 ] Avalloc > aggro doesn't affect jumping
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:43 ] Issler Dainze > /emote votes yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:47 ] Dierdra Vaal > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:52 ] Erik Finnegan > /emote votes yes
[ 2009.10.25 16:59:57 ] mazzilliu > oh i didnt know that brian ><
[ 2009.10.25 17:00:34 ] Zastrow J > yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:00:36 ] Avalloc > voting yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:02:49 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:02:52 ] Dierdra Vaal > motion passed 8/0
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:00 ] Dierdra Vaal > and now for the lulz
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > 6: replace titan models with monster trucks (maz)
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:05 ] Dierdra Vaal > http://wiki.eveonline.com/wiki/Replace_ingame_titan_models_with_monster_trucks
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:07 ] Dierdra Vaal > !
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:11 ] Erik Finnegan > !
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:18 ] Zastrow J > this might be the best idea in csm history
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:25 ] Vuk Lau > fuck that
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:27 ] mazzilliu > \o/
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:34 ] mazzilliu > intro to this issue:
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:36 ] mazzilliu > this is the best issue
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:41 ] mazzilliu > deedee go
[ 2009.10.25 17:03:58 ] Dierdra Vaal > I'm gonna vote no for multiple reasons. This was brought up in CSM1 and denied by CCP. They will not now nor ever agree to this. Second, this was only on the agenda because someone paid maz. And while this is her right, I would vote no on this just...
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:01 ] Dierdra Vaal > for that reason alone.
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:03 ] Dierdra Vaal > end
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:11 ] Vuk Lau > !
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:34 ] mazzilliu > i asked diagoras about the being paid, he said i was a horrible person but i wouldnt get in trouble
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:41 ] mazzilliu > i think that counts as free lisence to do anything i want
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:43 ] Vuk Lau > scratch my ! DV said what I wanted
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:46 ] mazzilliu > nest! erik
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:50 ] Erik Finnegan > I mazz gets Monster Trucks, I want pink cotton balls instead of rockets ! [FIN]
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:51 ] mazzilliu > next!*
[ 2009.10.25 17:04:59 ] Erik Finnegan > *If
[ 2009.10.25 17:05:13 ] Issler Dainze > !
[ 2009.10.25 17:05:20 ] mazzilliu > erik, maybe we can make the gallente titan a fluffy bunny themed monster truck, and give you one
[ 2009.10.25 17:05:30 ] Erik Finnegan > You got my vote !
[ 2009.10.25 17:05:31 ] Zastrow J > hello kitty erebus
[ 2009.10.25 17:05:54 ] mazzilliu > oh and as a note about the issue in general, it is living proof that i didnt scam anybody out of their plexes!
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:05 ] mazzilliu > i am the most honest politician
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:10 ] mazzilliu > issler go
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:11 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I'll vote for this only if the request specifically states that one side of the truck shall be sticker free and portray a big "GM Noah <3 Maz 4Ever"
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > nova*
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:26 ] mazzilliu > lol
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:26 ] Zastrow J > i have to poop so im voting HELL YES also voting yes to meissa's stipulation
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:28 ] Avalloc > Nova
[ 2009.10.25 17:06:29 ] Meissa Anunthiel > nova, yeah
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:01 ] Vuk Lau > guys I dont have infinite time for talking shit so can we vote and close the meeting
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:20 ] mazzilliu > you can just put in your vote and go afk, there are no issues after this
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:25 ] Vuk Lau > no
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:27 ] Vuk Lau > afk
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:29 ] Zastrow J > issue number 7:  csm consensus that vuk lau is a butt
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:40 ] mazzilliu > voting yes on zastrow's issue
[ 2009.10.25 17:07:52 ] Vuk Lau > i will see if I will a butt when dominion hits :D
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:00 ] Vuk Lau > or I will be your best friend again :D
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:13 ] mazzilliu > it's been issler's turn to talk though.  she might have had an aneurism from this issue i dont know
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:14 ] Zastrow J > : )
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:21 ] Issler Dainze > I just want to go on record as sayng this on the agenda just adds to the cooments folks have made about the CSM having become a joke, it should not have been brought up but since farce is now the theme of the csm I will vote yes (end)
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:35 ] mazzilliu > \o/
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:42 ] Zastrow J > victory !
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:43 ] mazzilliu > i appreciate your support !
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:51 ] mazzilliu > any more questions on this very important issue?
[ 2009.10.25 17:08:51 ] Meissa Anunthiel > what about my stipulation?
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:01 ] Issler Dainze > of course
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:03 ] mazzilliu > oh
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:08 ] Zastrow J > ok guys good meeting see yalls next time
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:16 ] mazzilliu > maybe you should raise that as a separate "sausage breakfast" CSM issue
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:23 ] mazzilliu > lets vote?
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:23 ] Dierdra Vaal > we're not finished yet zastrow
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:29 ] mazzilliu > or any more questions?
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:32 ] Zastrow J > i thought this was the last issue
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:36 ] Meissa Anunthiel > then I vote no
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:39 ] Erik Finnegan > /emote votes no
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:42 ] Dierdra Vaal > no
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:45 ] Dierdra Vaal > vuk also voted no
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:45 ] mazzilliu > voting yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:46 ] Zastrow J > o ok
[ 2009.10.25 17:09:52 ] Avalloc > vroom vroom.. (that's a yes)
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:03 ] mazzilliu > zastrow voted HELL YES, and issler voted yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:23 ] Erik Finnegan > We never had a draw.
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:31 ] mazzilliu > meissa i will change the csm issue to include the gm nova sticker if you change your vote to yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:32 ] Vuk Lau > my vote counts for 2
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:32 ] Issler Dainze > I did and I hope hello kitty kestrels will be next
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:34 ] Erik Finnegan > Why on the last issue ?!
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:36 ] Vuk Lau > so its not a draw
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:38 ] Erik Finnegan > Oh, Vuk, that's right
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:46 ] Zastrow J > should we forward this important issue to ccp for a tiebreaker discussion with their senior developers
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:55 ] mazzilliu > yeah maybe
[ 2009.10.25 17:10:58 ] Dierdra Vaal > we have a draw it seems, so I'll send OZ an evemail asking his vote
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:05 ] mazzilliu > ok!
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:14 ] Erik Finnegan > good
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:19 ] Avalloc > (time to bribe OZ)
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:20 ] Dierdra Vaal > with that said, next meeting
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:29 ] Dierdra Vaal > do we want a last meeting next week before our deadline?
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:41 ] Meissa Anunthiel > yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:41 ] Erik Finnegan > Maybe time to speak about the feedback issues ?
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:44 ] Dierdra Vaal > it will be your last chance to raise issues that go to CCP under the watch of CSM3
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:46 ] mazzilliu > yeah
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:51 ] Erik Finnegan > Or do you want to send them back as is ?
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:52 ] Vuk Lau > yes
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:57 ] Vuk Lau > one more meeting
[ 2009.10.25 17:11:59 ] mazzilliu > we havent talked about the feedback issues at all yet, aside from gathering forum input
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:00 ] Dierdra Vaal > Feedback issues, I'd like to have those finished by the end of next week
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:01 ] Vuk Lau > I have like 20 issues to raise
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:09 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok next week then, same time same place :)
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:12 ] Vuk Lau > btw
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:12 ] Dierdra Vaal > that is the...
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:14 ] Dierdra Vaal > 1st
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:16 ] Dierdra Vaal > nov. 1st
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:18 ] Dierdra Vaal > 16:00
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:24 ] Vuk Lau > what happened with meeting minutes
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:33 ] Meissa Anunthiel > they got sent to CCP
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:40 ] Zastrow J > ok
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:40 ] Meissa Anunthiel > will send you a copy
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:47 ] Vuk Lau > kk
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:48 ] Erik Finnegan > Meissa : google doc
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:49 ] Vuk Lau > thanx
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:51 ] Erik Finnegan > to all of us ?
[ 2009.10.25 17:12:56 ] Meissa Anunthiel > Sure
[ 2009.10.25 17:13:15 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I needed to include the discussion with the content team from atlanta, then got sick, but they're finished and sent
[ 2009.10.25 17:14:19 ] Erik Finnegan > Will you do the minutes of this meeting ?
[ 2009.10.25 17:14:31 ] Meissa Anunthiel > and it's missing a bit (from torfi) that CCP failed to send me, I had asked for the presentation slides to be sent so I could not take as many notes, they didn't, so I had to be a bit light on that one
[ 2009.10.25 17:14:42 ] Meissa Anunthiel > I will, I don't work tomorrow, so I got all day to do this
[ 2009.10.25 17:15:38 ] Erik Finnegan > /emote is waiting for Dierdra to wrap up this meeting.
[ 2009.10.25 17:15:54 ] Dierdra Vaal > ok well it seems we're finished then
[ 2009.10.25 17:16:03 ] Dierdra Vaal > ******** meeting closed :)