CSM Meeting Minutes 3.007

Meeting Minutes: 2009/08/09

See also CSM Meeting Minutes 3.007 raw log

Attendance

Dierdra Vaal, Avalloc, Erik, Larkonis, mazzilliu, Meissa Anunthiel, Zastrow J, Vuk Lau, Shatana Fulfairas

Absent: Omber Zombie

Any Other Business

• Dierdra reminds the secretaries to publish a PDF and the raw transcript of the minutes of meeting 4 and to publish the overdue minutes of meeting 6.
• Dierdra is also reminding the Council to bring backlog issues to her notice, which merrit a more detailed status report from CCP. Vuk objects that status of all issues would be reported by CCP and that this used to be a quick run-through in the previous terms.Dierdra expresses her intention to improve CCP feedback a little by pointing out those issues, which the CSM deems important.
• Dierdra points out that this meeting would be the last one before the onsite meeting on Iceland. Vuk asks if there were issues "left" from CSM 2 which the current acting CSM had to follow up on. (CSM 2 inherited items from CSM 1).

Update: Vista clarified that all issues were covered by CSM 2

Dierdra asks the Council members to send in their priorization of all issues, which were voted through including this meeting.

UI topics would most probably be grouped by CCP to handle them quickly.

Discussion

Individual Pilot Income Generation in 0.0 (Zastrow)

Zastrow introduces the issue by stating that 0.0 suffered from the particular difficulty, of not supporting an infinite number of pilots via mission agents, since more often than not belt rats are the only income source for solo'ists. He would motivate a discussion with CCP on this particular problem rather than suggesting concrete measures upfront to allieviate it.
Dierdra expresses her support for the suggestion, bringing up the concept of "space development" by corporations, which would build the infrastructure for income generation.
Erik objects that the suggested topic was about individuals rather than corporations. While he liked the idea of Dierdra to improve corporate life in 0.0 (since EVE is about collaboration), he does not consider individualists should have an easier life per se, it should rather come as a by-product of corporate development.
Avalloc supports the idea of corporate 0.0 space development, adding "truesec modification" as a concept. He responds to Erik that 0.0 pilots would lose isk for alliance PvP.</br>
Vuk objects to the issue that it had already been covered by the general discussion held in CSM2 about Incentivizing 0.0. Zastrow responds that his issue was more concise. And even if CCP had something in store, he wanted to discuss this particular subject on Iceland. Shatana seconds Vuk's opinion, and Dierdra later joins this, adding that a follow-up with CCP was always possible, since the issue was already in progress.

Larkonis responds to Erik's remark that the collaboration ideal might be a bit too vague for the broad mass, and that individual benefits were, hence, needed in 0.0.
Meissa points out a procedural detail that this topic would not take up time on Iceland, if the contents should in fact be covered by upcoming discussion about 0.0, and then be gracefully removed from the agenda.
Erik wants to know, how concerns would be seen that alliances could monopolize the (new) income sources. Zastrow responds that he does not conform with this fear which was posted to the thread. Dierdra adds that one could still sneak into 0.0 even though alliances were making efforts to prohibit this.
Erik asks if increased income options in low and null sec would abolish the need to maintain lvl4 missions in high sec as a sure income source for pilots who need the money to do other things later. Zastrow would love to see that happening, at least to the point that pilots would not have to seek income in high-sec for their activities in outer space. Dierdra adds that some pilots would like the lvl4 missions as they were and not have an alternative carreer in outer space.
Vuk stresses that the suggested issue was broader than explained, if a proper solution was to be found. He showed on Iceland in the last term that only 10% of outer space were actually used.

Motion passes 8/1 (against: Dierdra)

Competence of the GM department (Vuk)

Vuk explains that he wants a sitin with the GM department. Details were confidential.
Avalloc objects the request.
Dierdra claims that the issue was badly formed and the proposed solution to hire more people was beyond the acceptable scope of the CSM. The Council could ask for a meeting, but the 'house cleanup' request was unwise with regards to the CSM CCP releationship. Vuk responds that GMs were part of the gaming experience and, thus, within the scope of the CSM's work. Dierdra specifies that talks about improvements had her support, but not hard request for HR consequences. Meissa seconds Vuk's opinion about the GM's and support a strong position. Erik would like to see the document more moderate.
Larkonis support the request to talk about the GMs on Iceland, but suggests Vuk to be moderate.

Motion passes 7/2 (against: Dierdra, Avalloc)

Black Ops and Titan able to lock on POS Cyno Beacons (Avalloc)

Avalloc introduces the issue saying that currently the Black Ops and Titan jump bridge UI could only open bridges to a cyno broadcast via another ship. The suggestion was to allow the Titan and the Black Op ship types to create bridges to POS Cyno Beacons in the same manner capital ships can jump to them normally.
Vuk claims that the initial statement was incorrect; titans were able to bridge to beacons. Zastrow says that Black Ops were able to bridge to covert cynos.

The topic is purged due to apparently faulty preconditions.

Docking in Capital Ships (Zastrow)

Zastrow explains that the request was to allow Motherships and Titans to carry other Capsuleer ships.
Vuk fears technical restrictions could inhibit implementation, as had been uttered by CCP before. Zastrow reinforces the need to ask for that again.
Dierdra is worried about imbalance from the increased power, but the game style implications were tempting. For Motherships this was more desirable than for Titans. Zastrow answers that hotdrops were already possible through a Titan's bridge, which lessens balance implications. Dierdra adds that increased fuel costs due to loaded ships could be used to make up for the augmented power.
Larkonis sees possible workarounds for the technical side. Also, he does not see balance implications as too important, since similar effects could already be achieved through clone vat bay, for example.
Vuk seconds the balance worries, while he likes the tactical diversification.
Erik suggests trying this feature with less important combat ships. But Zastrow says that a balancing would be due anyway if it was possible to implement at all.
Shatana seconds the suggestion to limit the feature to Motherships.
Meissa adds to the technical worries.
Zastrow agrees to adjust the wiki doc to reflect a limitation to Motherships.

Motion passes 8/1 (against: Vuk)

Split the show Effects setting into separate options. (Avalloc)

Avalloc explains that more UI effect switches would improve game experience versus client performance, when effects could be switched off more selectively.
Erik, Vuk, and Meissa express their support.

Motion passes 9/0

Add skill which reduces Jump Clone timer just a little bit. (Avalloc)

Avalloc introduces the issue being the 24h delay for repeated clone jumping was unnecessarily inhibit daily play. A skill should be introduced to alleviate or jumping be allowed twice in 48h.
Meissa thinks the restriction serves a good purpose.
Avalloc claims that "pod jumping" was already possible, voiding tactical intelligence as to an opponent's travel restrictions.
Dierdra states that a similar request had already been raised and failed. Travelling through New Eden already was too easy in her opinion. This is seconded by Larkonis. The costs or pod jumping were justified.
Erik suggests to increase the jump clone timer to two days, and allow a skill for its reduction. Avalloc thinks that this would impede new players too much.
mazzilliu expresses her support saying that a reduction would improve the fitness of the feature to daily routine yet still serve the purpose of restricting its use to once per day. This is later seconded by Erik.
Larkonis tends to agree with Dierdra in that travelling was way easy compared to the early days (no warp to 0 - figure that!) but might support a slight skill decrease of 2h maximum.
Meissa points out an inconsistency in the proposal where new players would not be helped if the skill was a very high rank. Also, she sees an unfavourable advantage for large alliances arising from a simplicifaction.

Motion fails 6/3 (for: mazzilliu, Avalloc, Zastrow)

Improve refresh time on loading Corporate Hangar contents. (Avalloc)

Avalloc explains that refreshing of hangar tabs was sometimes perceived as being too slow and asks for an investigation.
Dierdra does not think the delay was "deliberate", but technically inherent, and thus an investigation irrelevant.

Motion passes 8/1 (against: Dierdra)

Ship fittings visible via Show Info without boarding ship. (Avalloc)

Avalloc explains that an access to one's ships fitting information while they were in the hangar would be helpful.
Dierdra asks that the document be clarified in that this refers to docked, unmanned ships in the own hangar.

Motion passes 9/0

Store bookmark folders server-side. (Avalloc)

Avalloc says that while BMs and overview were stored locally, they are lost when the client needs to be reinstalled. The topic suggests to store settings serverside.
Dierdra is worried about increased lag when BMs were communicated over the network (refers to the reasons of the warp-to-0 introduction). Meissa responds that this request would not have such implications.
Erik inquires if such a topic had already been raised.

Motion passes 8/0

Improve People & Places search results for Solar Systems. (Avalloc)

Avalloc explains the issue being that the solar system search result popup did not contain enough information to select the "right" system directly from that list. The item suggests to give more system info (region, number of jumps) in that window already.
Lark and Dierdra point out that the info was available in the info window of the systems. Avalloc responds that the additional clicks were unnecessarily impairing usability for this often needed info.

Motion passes 9/0

Improve the Market UI for identifying your own Buy & Sell. (Avalloc)

Avalloc says the main UI for looking at Market Buy/Sell orders would not give any insight into which ones belong to the player. The suggestion is to colour code more information into this list.
Meissa points out that the information was available in parallel from the wallet window. And colour coding made it too easy for macros.
Vuk supports Meissa's opinion that an improvement in order to have the information in parallel was not necessary, since it was already there.

Motion fails 7/2 (for: Avalloc, Zastrow)

Add the feature of switching characters without relogging. (Avalloc)

Meissa supports the suggestion. Dierdra thinks the benefit versus the effort CCP would likely have to invest made it irrelevant.

Motion passes 8/1 (against: Dierdra)

UI Improve Fleet Commander UI by showing fleet composition. (Avalloc)

Avalloc points out that currently fleet composition would have to be communicated by chat. Scanner were less helpful because out of system ships will not be counted.. Instead, a command should be added to allow the fleet/wing/squad commanders to see the ships under their command.
Dierdra expresses her support for the issue.

Motion passes 8/1 (against: Vuk)

POS Reduce pod fuel requirements for Jump Bridges back to zero. (Avalloc)

Avalloc introduces the issue being that pods, being unable to carry Liquid Ozone, they are unable to use empty bridges. This rather recent fuel requirement should be reverted.
Larkonis points out that this was introduced to aggravate reaching a replacement ship for Capsuleers shot down in battle. The bridge network should remain inaccessible to pods. This is seconded by Dierdra, Erik, and Meissa. Vuk adds that keeping jump bridges fueled was not a too restrictive requirement in order to allow pods to jump.

Motion fails 6/3 (for: Avalloc, Zastrow, mazzilliu)

Faster CSM Process for Minor Issues (Avalloc)

Avalloc says it would improve the CSM process if minor issues (like the many UI recommendations) would not have to go through the standard procedure. If topics could be tagged as minor, this could allow a streamlined process on both sides, CSM and CCP.
Dierdra sees more dangers in missing important discussion than benefit in speeding up the procedure. She says that minor issues would already rush through the standard process quite quickly; the Council would not spend too much time discussing, and CCP would then group them, too. Meissa seconds this opinion.

The topic is purged.